Tag: Molestia

I’m backing out of the “Down with Molestia” controversy. I’ve made my views clear. (You can see all the posts I’ve made here. This is also linked at the top my blog. [Update: I have removed the link.]) There’s not much more I can respond to without repeating myself. Also, this has pretty much replaced my regular content on this blog for the past few days. It’s time to get back.

I will still have other discussions, and I may jump back in later if something major happens.

Wherever you stand, I hope you continue to promote your views and engage rationally and civilly. (And if you haven’t been doing so, I hope you start!)

/t/post/58706472018/heartlinda-discussion-down-with-molestia-free

I didn’t want to reblog sheeparts’ post again, so I sent something to his ask box. But he probably won’t answer, seeing as I might have spammed him with so many responses.

Yes, free speech does also give the “Down with Molestia” campaign the right to call for the removal of “Ask Princess Molestia.” But the same question must be asked about DM as about APM: Even though DM has the right, should they?

I’m leaning toward an answer of “no” since John Joseco is still protected by free speech (and it seems sheeparts agrees on this).

However, I would encourage people to continue speaking out against APM’s rape jokes and their defenders. Using this as a catalyst for awareness of rape and sexual abuse is also a good idea. I think this is a better way to approach it. I’ve seen some fan art, and I think that making it is great.

I guess you could say this: I defend the blog, but not what is in the blog.

/t/post/58704416542/discussion-down-with-molestia-free-speech

sheeparts:

heartlinda:

I’ve seen many responses to the “free speech” argument for “Ask Princess Molestia” to the tune of, “It trivializes rape and harms rape victims.” I get that. It’s offensive and harmful.

However, that has no bearing on free speech. Free speech protects even offensive speech, as long as it does not…

Free speech also covers our criticism of the blog and our calls to have it taken down. It’s a really, really broad concept.

Of course. I’m sure some would want WBC to stop as well, but neither of these should be forced. If you manage to convince John Joseco to take down the blog, that’s great.

I’ve seen many responses to the “free speech” argument for “Ask Princess Molestia” to the tune of, “It trivializes rape and harms rape victims.” I get that. It’s offensive and harmful.

However, that has no bearing on free speech. Free speech protects even offensive speech, as long as it does not directly incite violence. Free speech means people have the right to be rude, bigoted, racist, sexist, and even rape-apologetic.

The next question is: Should they be? Of course not! But this is a different matter altogether.

To illustrate this distinction, take a look at the Westboro Baptist Church. You might have heard of it. It’s a church in Kansas, United States that regularly protests against gay people with the slogan “God hates fags” and even goes so far as to say that terrorist attacks on the United States (including 9/11!) are God’s punishment for tolerating homosexuals.

It’s clear that WBC’s speech is hateful and bigoted. It has the potential to harm victims of anti-LGBT violence. But as much as I disagree with WBC and its activities, I would not try to stop them since they are protected by free speech.

“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” —S.G. Tallentyre, The Friends of Voltaire, illustrating Voltaire’s view on free speech

pixelkitties:

Sexual exploitation is no joke, I get that.  Having volunteered at a rape crisis center, I’ve heard heartbreaking stories and seen lives devastated by rape and sexual assault.

I applaud ANYONE concerned about these issues and willing to help with time and money.  BUT trying to take down a tumblr about dirty jokes and ponies doesn’t amount to fuck-all.  And sending someone money for a tee-shirt “supporting” taking down a tumblr about dirty jokes and ponies means even less than fuck-all.  

If you want to lend assistance to something that matters, visit the websites of these 4-star rated charity organizations dealing with matters of rape, sexual exploitation, and women’s  justice.  Make a donation, volunteer your time, do something that MATTERS.  Don’t be a tumblr warrior, be an actual hero and make a difference.

The International Justice Mission

Securing justice for victims of slavery, sexual exploitation and violent oppression

RAINN Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network

The nation’s largest anti-sexual assault organization

National Center for Missing & Exploited Children

Helping prevent child abduction and sexual exploitation

The Center for Justice and Accountability

Bringing Human Rights Abusers to Justice

To find certified and verified charities in your area, please visit the Charity Navigator.

duedlyinfatuation:

ps freedom of speech has nothing to do with independent people or privately owned forums it literally only refers to the government not being able to restrict your speech within reason

unless the government itself is silencing you, your right to free speech is not being restricted. 

the first amendment doesn’t protect you from people telling you to shut the fuck up

True, but it does protect that person from actually having to shut up.

from-pashoo:

Yo, guys, I think we all ought to calm down.

In all honesty, I think there are people on both sides overreaching, overreacting, and in general, not being cool about the whole thing. From what I understand, there are people trying to speak out for rape and sexual abuse victims, and some of them want the Molestia blog taken down in fear that it belittles those victims. There are also people coming to the defense of the blog, some because they feel that taking down the blog when it hasn’t committed any technical violations encroaches on the artist’s freedom of expression, others because they enjoy the blog, and some because of both reasons.

I think both sides have valid reasons for wanting the things they want, but just want to say this is not the way to do it. We do not harass each other, we do not spread personal information, we do not passive-aggressively pass hurtful notes across blogs, and we certainly do not break our friendships over it. First and foremost, the drama going on now isn’t worth breaking those ties, or if it is, then either those ties weren’t very strong to begin with, or you’re just a petty person. If this is how it’s going to be, then, it doesn’t matter which side is right because we’re all just being stupid.

If I could just put my own personal input, I think that of course, rape culture is a terrible thing and the victims deserve to be treated with respect, but I thought we’d all be mature enough to realize the differences between reality and fiction. What a silly, harmless blog does on the internet has no bearing on your life unless you take the time and effort to read it. Just like when we pick up a book or game, we know that what’s going on in there has no impact on the world at large. 

And I know the biggest concerns are that Molestia empowers rape culture and silences the victims, and other things to that effect, but if that’s the case, then taking down the blog still isn’t the way to remedy that. Ignorance untouched is still ignorance. I know for a fact that there are people our there who legitimately think that rape isn’t a big deal, but taking down the Molestia askblog isn’t going to remedy that. All it’ll do is eliminate one way to while away the afternoon, but they’ll ultimately walk away with their opinions unchanged. They need to be informed. I like to think I’m a decent human being, and reading the blog hasn’t changed that. I still know that rape is a pretty big fucking deal.

In regards to the freedom of expression aspect of the debate, I also have to agree with them. To want something taken down because of the fact that you don’t agree with it is understandable, but in this case, acting on that feeling is inappropriate. Just like you and I and most everyone else on the internet has the right to express ourselves, we also have the right to ignore others’ selves and their expressions. In all seriousness, if you’d never read Molestia, were never considering, and were never planning on it, then how would having it taken down affect anyone but the ones who do take stock in it?

Seriously, both sides are approaching this issue the wrong way, and I know it’s not everyone, but it’s obviously doing nothing but causing unneeded hostility and anger and I don’t like it. JJ, the artist for the blog, is a cool guy and he’s just now getting insulted and berated over this blog which has existed since the fandom started.

Normally, I like to keep things bright and positive, but no, this time, both sides are wrong in their own way. And I’d be just as disappointed if the blog gets taken down as I am now with all the misguided, petty indignation.

jaunty-cavalcades:

heartlinda:

Here’s how I think DM should ideally treat supporters of “Ask Princess Molestia”:

“You should stop supporting APM because it normalizes rape.”

Instead, what I see is this:

“If you support APM, you support rape culture.”

The difference between the two is that the first allows people who support APM to reconsider, without accusing them of supporting something that they probably don’t. Some people might like APM but not realize that it might support rape culture.

If this is supposed to be about awareness, the first one does a much better job without inciting accusations.

What’s with the tone police? Why are you telling DWM supporters how they have to behave. Most of us are being calm(ish), patient with the same arguments from hundreds of people and having to answer rudimentary questions again and again, and so on. While Molestia supporters are spouting hate, making death threats, and being general pain in the patooties. Why are you telling us how to show our support to someone who is fighting the patriarchy?

This reminds me of white people telling oppressed POC that they should be nice to white people when they get death threats from them. Like, what? Why?

I apologize for not making this clearer, but I meant initially. I just think DM might not have gotten so much flak if people worded these charges differently; I’m not “policing.”

I’ve found some posts under #Down with Molestia that cite statistics that show that rape jokes are correlated with rape culture (blaming the victim, trivializing, etc.). I’m not doubting that. But does this really justify action against “Ask Princess Molestia”?

Think about this question: When someone gets raped, who’s to blame? The rapist, of course!

This blog and other rape jokes are not to blame for rape, and I think John Joseco is trying to draw the comparison to campaigns to limit fast food in #354. That is, just as fast food is not to blame for obesity, APM is not to blame for rape.

Of course, that does not mean nothing should be done about rape culture (or “fast-food culture,” for that matter). I would encourage people to speak out against rape culture, just as I would encourage healthy-eating campaigns. But shutting down a blog or a fast-food place isn’t the solution.

irlponies:

Okay. I didn’t really address the hypocrisy you might be able to pull from me saying to stay of my blog, when I call out icky behaviour, and when we talk about the problems with the Molestia character. I am saying to stay off my blog if you don’t want me to critically analyze something through a feminist lens. DWM is saying that the Molestia character, especially the APM blog are harmful to society as a whole because it normalizes a problematic way of thinking. We aren’t trying to take down the blog. We are trying to show people that it is harmful and maybe make the creators address said problems.

If this is what DM is really about, then that’s good. But with a name like “Down with Molestia” that doesn’t really get this across.