Tag: Discussion

http://sunlightstarry.deviantart.com/art/True-Bronies-Stamp-280749399

So here’s the backstory. A while back I reblogged a presentation comparing bisexuality and pansexuality. Subsequently fandomsandfeminism followed up on the hate surrounding the inclusion of ponies.

On that post, 10-foot-pole-logician said: You must have offended the bronies. And they are coming for you

LOL! Why would bronies get pissed off by ponies? I guess if they were used for something that went against the show… Hey, wasn’t there that one deviantArt thing that was against homosexual relationships…?

Oh, yeah! E-Qual-estria!

Where’s that art… Ah, here we go! This art from one of the moderators led me to this, and it pretty much sums up the reasons for the hate toward the group.

There’s a section in the rules that’s relevant:
Question: Why aren’t gay couples allowed? As long as its not too graphic, then I don’t see why it shouldn’t be considered G-rating.
Answer: We don’t want our group focusing on shipping- there are many, many other groups for that. We just like to focus on the general MLP fandom. Anyone can join. The general idea of our “Colts X Fillies” is meant to follow the “cannon” [sic] path of hetero crushes (aka Spike X Rarity).

That leads me to the stamp accessible through the post link. Let’s take a tour through the description:

[Note: I’ve used some styles to make “italics in italics” show up as upright, but these won’t show on the dashboard. If you’re interested in seeing them, view the post on my blog.]

I’m not here to tell you what you can or cannot draw, just to inform bronies that homo relationships are not canon, and that we don’t want you to force us to accept it into our groups. I don’t hate anypony, so please don’t hate anypony either [:)]
Okay, if you’re up for “canonical ships only,” then that’s fine. But there is a fine line between persuading you to accept something and forcing you to. I haven’t witnessed a lot of the criticism firsthand, but I would think that yes, some of it went past persuasion.

First off, there are no homosexual ponies in MLP:FiM. There are frequent heterosexual couples listed in MLP:FiM. Mr. and Mrs. Cake, Twilight’s parents, Spike X Rarity, AJ’s parents, Pinkie Pie’s parents, Rarity’s parents, and the latest coupling Big Mac X Cherilee!
Yeah, that’s true. But if you only want to ship canonical couples, you’d better not ship some of the more common non-canonical heterosexual couples, like Fluttershy x Big Macintosh and Soarin’ x Rainbow Dash…
Let’s explore the “Colts X Fillies” folder. Not only is there Fluttermac (Bigshy?) and Soarindash (Rainbowsoarin’?), I see Twilight x Big Macintosh and Luna x Discord. Yep, totally canonical. Come on, is it canonical couples only or straight couples only?

Second, the majority of shipping seems to be homosexual ponies. This is not canon my fellow bronies, do not be deceived.
Sure, but neither is every fanfic (pony or not) ever written.

This is a children’s show! They have not featured homo ponies because this is meant for children.
Um…okay…? Maybe children shouldn’t be exploring the finer points of queer sexuality, but I don’t know if this an appropriate charge…

Homosexual is a sexual deviation, an abnormality, which is not appropriate for kids.
Yep, here we go. You lost me. Like I said, it’s fine if you want to constrain yourself to canonical ships, but this? You know what, fine. This statement (unlike some other statements about gays, lesbians, and other queer people) is subjective. But understand that you will get criticism for it.

So why the stamp Sunlight? Well, quite frankly, I’m disgusted with many bronies who draw Rainbow Dash X Pinkie Pie, or Twilight X Princess Luna. Or for that matter, Princess Celestia X Princess Luna! Bottom-of-the-barrel bronies, stooping to homo incest. Grossed out yet? There’s more.
I’m not sure if this was intentional, but this seems to conflate the ideas of homosexuality and incest. I could see why a lot of people wouldn’t like Celestia x Luna, but that would be because the relationship is incestual, not homosexual. While Rainbowpie (Pinkieshy?) isn’t at the top of my M6 ship list, and I think Twilight x Celestia makes more sense, I get them.

If you make a group that doesn’t allow sexual deviations, you will more than likely be trolled by users who want you to accept their sexual deviations. Their goal is to force you to accept it….
It’s not like we’re going to allow rapes, murders, blood and gore, or sexual deviations. These things are not in MLP. It’s a children’s show!
Logic students, take note. This is a fallacy (a defect in logic) called begging the question (also known by the Latin petitio principii, “petition of principle”). This occurs when a conclusion is based on a claim that also needs support. In simple terms, someone argues, “Y, because X,” and the issue that comes up is, “Well, how do we know X is true?” In this case, the conclusion is homosexuality should not be allowed in MLP, based on the premises sexual deviations should not be allowed in MLP and homosexuality is a sexual deviation. The claim that needs support here is homosexuality is a sexual deviation. That is, how do we know homosexuality is a sexual deviation?

Lastly, I’d like to point out a grammatical “pet peeve” that’s bugged me throughout this discussion: There is the word “canonical”. Use it! (This doesn’t just go to SunlightStarry.)

Holy crap. This is twice as long as any previous single discussion post (that is, not counting threads) on my blog. If you’ve made it this far, I appreciate it.

rarityloveeverpony:

fandomsandfeminism:

duchess-von-finger-bang:

fandomsandfeminism:

The difference between Bisexuality and Pansexuality: A Powerpoint Guide (Slightly updated)

Why the fuck was it needed to put fucking ponies in this man.

Seriously.

They share the color schemes of the pride flags? And I like MLP? 

I personally wonder what pan sexual mean to be for a while

I suppose the main distinction is that pansexuality includes attraction towards people outside the “gender binary” of male and female, where as bisexuality does not.

EDIT: In an updated post, fandomsandfeminism clarifies that bisexuality does include attraction to transgender binary people. But I’m taking an issue with the characterization of “bisexual = attracted to men and women” as “flawed”. To me it seems pretty clear that the two sexes referenced are male and female (especially if we look at sexual attraction from an androphilic/gynephilic standpoint as opposed to heterosexual/homosexual), and, as a result, that bisexuality doesn’t include attraction toward non-binary people.

Relevant Wikipedia articles (with references to sources):

• Bisexuality
• Pansexuality
• Androphilia and gynephilia

Despite all this, I would think that at least some people who identify as bisexual would be attracted to a non-binary person. It’s just that bisexuality takes a gender binary as a given.

mlpafterdark4ever:

braeburned:

peent:

Now with 100% more simplicity and 200% less fluff!

Now you too can be cool and install a curtain on your blog that warns people about the content within and protect people from seeing NSFW content when they don’t wanna!!

Read More

I still get people asking about the NSFW curtain on my blog, so if you’d like one for yourself, be sure to check this out! Pretty simple stuff!

I might put this on (or modify it).

mlpafterdark4ever:

derpah:

I will like whoever I want.

Right on. This message is just ignorant. You can like whoever you want.

http://generalcumble.tumblr.com/post/77022680497/its-tuesday-for-me-lets-go

r34dash:

sigyn-x:

1. Have you ever slept naked? :

2. Have you ever masturbated? :

3. What’s your bra size, or dick length? :

4. Where was or would you want your first time to be and why?:

5. Have you ever gotten sexual with anything that wasn’t a person? :

6. Have you ever shown anyone your…

ITS PRETTY MUCH TMI TUESDAY! MESSAGE NUMBERS NAO AND x86 AND I WILL GET BACK WITH ANSWERS! Wooooo! TMI Tuesday is my life btw…

-Z

EDIT:PLEASE VISIT THE OP AS TUMBLR CUT OFF MOST OF THE QUESTIONS ITS ALSO ALL CAPS DAY K?

http://broniesagainstbullshit.tumblr.com/

Bronies Against BullShit is a platform for the brony fandom to call out, critique, support, and analyze itself in a constructive and mature manner.

I don’t think I’m ready to start following or participating, but still, check it out!

ask-alicorn-rarity:

just-a-bunch-of-girls:

pantslesswrock:

sherlockedinseattle:

I JUST SPIT COFFEE ALL OVER MY COMPUTER HOLY SHIT

THAT TOOK ME WAY TOO LONG

I both want to hit, and kiss the one in green for that aweful pun 

This^

ambris-waifu-hoard:

Hm..........

...Soarin'?

appledashwins:

needs-more-plot:

heartlinda:

heartlinda:

My rules give some explanation. (Everyone reads my rules, right? XD Maybe I should link to them everytime I mark “RULES VIOLATION" or “RULES WARNING”.)

Anyway, my first encounter with incest in furry (not exactly pornographic) was in “Better Days,” a webcomic by furry artist Jay Naylor. The chapter I linked is where it happens (or is heavily implied, anyway). That was probably my main turn-off to incest in pornography.

More generally, sexual reproduction between closely-related individuals is disadvantageous in natural selection, because it does not create as much genetic diversity. So there is a biological reason for avoiding incest, which could lead (justifiably, in my opinion) to the cultural avoidance of it.

However, I think incest has more to do with the relationship between the individuals. Adoptive siblings are not closely related biologically, but I would still consider sex between them incest. Family relationships (I think) are asexual (going back to the biological advantage), and since the relationship between adoptive children and other members of a family is about the same, I would still consider it incest (and thus wrong to some degree).

Now the Celestia-Luna exception. You might be referring to this post, in which I mention the exception; I also mention it in my rules. In the rules, I point to a clopfic, "Tipsy” by Anonymous Pegasus on FIMFiction, whose handling of the incest desensitizes it a bit to the cultural taboo.

More generally, I make the exception because, frankly, Celestia and Luna have a pretty flimsy claim for being “sisters.” All we have for that is the first episode, but there’s no history of their birth, their parents, or their childhood. (I doubt that they’re even sisters in the traditional biological sense.) Like I said, I think incest is about the relationship, so the fact that there isn’t much of this relationship between Celestia and Luna makes it seem less like incest than if the “sister” claim is taken on its face.

“Flimsy logic”? Come on!

I’ll admit that that was my initial reaction, but now I’ll respectfully disagree. Maybe I should elaborate by starting with the clopfic I referenced:

Luna lifted a socked hoof to touch at her own chest, turning to face Twilight properly. “Thou understands [sic] that our sister and we are many, many years old?”

Twilight nodded at that, tilting her head to the side slightly. “I know that it’s over two thousand years old.”

“Then thou knows [sic] that we do not have…parents, as it were?” Luna continued, raising a brow.

The young unicorn frowned at that, and then nodded again. “Indeed.”

“Our sister and we are close. We are closer than family. We are like the sun and the moon itself. We sisters, but we are alien to each other. There is no family between us except that which we choose to acknowledge,” Luna explained, giving Twilight a warm smile. “We are sisters…but we are not.”

Works for me!

I see a lot of fan work that depicts Celestia and Luna as fillies, but none of that is canonical. This is opposed to the other family relations depicted on the show (the Apple family, and Twilight Sparkle and Shining Armor), which actually have canonical childhood histories and parents. We don’t even know who Celestia and Luna’s parents are, or even if they have parents.

This ambiguous childhood relationship also explains why I’m okay with Celestia x Cadenza, even though according to the “wedding announcement” in the New York Times they’re aunt and niece; Celestia and Cadenza also don’t have much (if any) canonical family history.

Alright, I can accept that as one valid fanon interpretation. I got the impression you were trying to assert that something more canon. but reviewing your posts, I understand better what you actually meant.

I’m not seeing the scene you guys are talking about. I think it’s kinda sweet

To which scene are you referring? All the scenes are linked, but if you don’t feel like following the discussion up:

• The scene in the furry webcomic “Better Days” is in Chapter 10, starting with the comic dated 24 September 2004.
• The scene in the clopfic “Tipsy” is in Chapter 3 (“Twilunestia”) and can be found with your browser’s “find” feature. The word “parents” appears only in the part I quoted.