It’s fine. :D
Tag: Discussion
My rules give some explanation. (Everyone reads my rules, right? XD Maybe I should link to them everytime I mark “RULES VIOLATION" or “RULES WARNING”.)
Anyway, my first encounter with incest in furry (not exactly pornographic) was in “Better Days,” a webcomic by furry artist Jay Naylor. The chapter I linked is where it happens (or is heavily implied, anyway). That was probably my main turn-off to incest in pornography.
More generally, sexual reproduction between closely-related individuals is disadvantageous in natural selection, because it does not create as much genetic diversity. So there is a biological reason for avoiding incest, which could lead (justifiably, in my opinion) to the cultural avoidance of it.
However, I think incest has more to do with the relationship between the individuals. Adoptive siblings are not closely related biologically, but I would still consider sex between them incest. Family relationships (I think) are asexual (going back to the biological advantage), and since the relationship between adoptive children and other members of a family is about the same, I would still consider it incest (and thus wrong to some degree).
Now the Celestia-Luna exception. You might be referring to this post, in which I mention the exception; I also mention it in my rules. In the rules, I point to a clopfic, "Tipsy” by Anonymous Pegasus on FIMFiction, whose handling of the incest desensitizes it a bit to the cultural taboo.
More generally, I make the exception because, frankly, Celestia and Luna have a pretty flimsy claim for being “sisters.” All we have for that is the first episode, but there’s no history of their birth, their parents, or their childhood. (I doubt that they’re even sisters in the traditional biological sense.) Like I said, I think incest is about the relationship, so the fact that there isn’t much of this relationship between Celestia and Luna makes it seem less like incest than if the “sister” claim is taken on its face.
I’ll admit that that was my initial reaction, but now I’ll respectfully disagree. Maybe I should elaborate by starting with the clopfic I referenced:
Luna lifted a socked hoof to touch at her own chest, turning to face Twilight properly. “Thou understands [sic] that our sister and we are many, many years old?”
Twilight nodded at that, tilting her head to the side slightly. “I know that it’s over two thousand years old.”
“Then thou knows [sic] that we do not have…parents, as it were?” Luna continued, raising a brow.
The young unicorn frowned at that, and then nodded again. “Indeed.”
“Our sister and we are close. We are closer than family. We are like the sun and the moon itself. We sisters, but we are alien to each other. There is no family between us except that which we choose to acknowledge,” Luna explained, giving Twilight a warm smile. “We are sisters…but we are not.”
Works for me!
I see a lot of fan work that depicts Celestia and Luna as fillies, but none of that is canonical. This is opposed to the other family relations depicted on the show (the Apple family, and Twilight Sparkle and Shining Armor), which actually have canonical childhood histories and parents. We don’t even know who Celestia and Luna’s parents are, or even if they have parents.
This ambiguous childhood relationship also explains why I’m okay with Celestia x Cadenza, even though according to the “wedding announcement” in the New York Times they’re aunt and niece; Celestia and Cadenza also don’t have much (if any) canonical family history.
“I rely on fanon material to prove canon relations”
Uh…?
I’m quoting the fan work to demonstrate that there is not much canonical information on Celestia and Luna’s relationship.
My rules give some explanation. (Everyone reads my rules, right? XD Maybe I should link to them everytime I mark “RULES VIOLATION" or “RULES WARNING”.)
Anyway, my first encounter with incest in furry (not exactly pornographic) was in “Better Days,” a webcomic by furry artist Jay Naylor. The chapter I linked is where it happens (or is heavily implied, anyway). That was probably my main turn-off to incest in pornography.
More generally, sexual reproduction between closely-related individuals is disadvantageous in natural selection, because it does not create as much genetic diversity. So there is a biological reason for avoiding incest, which could lead (justifiably, in my opinion) to the cultural avoidance of it.
However, I think incest has more to do with the relationship between the individuals. Adoptive siblings are not closely related biologically, but I would still consider sex between them incest. Family relationships (I think) are asexual (going back to the biological advantage), and since the relationship between adoptive children and other members of a family is about the same, I would still consider it incest (and thus wrong to some degree).
Now the Celestia-Luna exception. You might be referring to this post, in which I mention the exception; I also mention it in my rules. In the rules, I point to a clopfic, "Tipsy” by Anonymous Pegasus on FIMFiction, whose handling of the incest desensitizes it a bit to the cultural taboo.
More generally, I make the exception because, frankly, Celestia and Luna have a pretty flimsy claim for being “sisters.” All we have for that is the first episode, but there’s no history of their birth, their parents, or their childhood. (I doubt that they’re even sisters in the traditional biological sense.) Like I said, I think incest is about the relationship, so the fact that there isn’t much of this relationship between Celestia and Luna makes it seem less like incest than if the “sister” claim is taken on its face.
You know, I read that comic myself some time ago, so I know exactly the scene you’re talking about. I honestly don’t have a clue why that inherently makes it a turn-off.
For the record, I definitely don’t approve of long-term incestuous “relationships”, because things get entirely too complex on an emotional level. And I’ve always felt that efforts should be made that inbreeding never happens, for obvious reasons.
Personally, I find that reasoning for Celestia and Luna incest to be… odd. Flimsy logic even. But I guess if it works for you, more power to you.
I guess I struggle to understand why people are against incest porn.
To me, it’s simply a matter of having a good time with people you trust; as all sexual encounters should be. Why is that so bad?
I’ll admit that that was my initial reaction, but now I’ll respectfully disagree. Maybe I should elaborate by starting with the clopfic I referenced:
Luna lifted a socked hoof to touch at her own chest, turning to face Twilight properly. “Thou understands [sic] that our sister and we are many, many years old?”
Twilight nodded at that, tilting her head to the side slightly. “I know that it’s over two thousand years old.”
“Then thou knows [sic] that we do not have…parents, as it were?” Luna continued, raising a brow.
The young unicorn frowned at that, and then nodded again. “Indeed.”
“Our sister and we are close. We are closer than family. We are like the sun and the moon itself. We sisters, but we are alien to each other. There is no family between us except that which we choose to acknowledge,” Luna explained, giving Twilight a warm smile. “We are sisters…but we are not.”
Works for me!
I see a lot of fan work that depicts Celestia and Luna as fillies, but none of that is canonical. This is opposed to the other family relations depicted on the show (the Apple family, and Twilight Sparkle and Shining Armor), which actually have canonical childhood histories and parents. We don’t even know who Celestia and Luna’s parents are, or even if they have parents.
This ambiguous childhood relationship also explains why I’m okay with Celestia x Cadenza, even though according to the “wedding announcement” in the New York Times they’re aunt and niece; Celestia and Cadenza also don’t have much (if any) canonical family history.
My rules give some explanation. (Everyone reads my rules, right? XD Maybe I should link to them everytime I mark “RULES VIOLATION" or “RULES WARNING”.)
Anyway, my first encounter with incest in furry (not exactly pornographic) was in “Better Days,” a webcomic by furry artist Jay Naylor. The chapter I linked is where it happens (or is heavily implied, anyway). That was probably my main turn-off to incest in pornography.
More generally, sexual reproduction between closely-related individuals is disadvantageous in natural selection, because it does not create as much genetic diversity. So there is a biological reason for avoiding incest, which could lead (justifiably, in my opinion) to the cultural avoidance of it.
However, I think incest has more to do with the relationship between the individuals. Adoptive siblings are not closely related biologically, but I would still consider sex between them incest. Family relationships (I think) are asexual (going back to the biological advantage), and since the relationship between adoptive children and other members of a family is about the same, I would still consider it incest (and thus wrong to some degree).
Now the Celestia-Luna exception. You might be referring to this post, in which I mention the exception; I also mention it in my rules. In the rules, I point to a clopfic, "Tipsy” by Anonymous Pegasus on FIMFiction, whose handling of the incest desensitizes it a bit to the cultural taboo.
More generally, I make the exception because, frankly, Celestia and Luna have a pretty flimsy claim for being “sisters.” All we have for that is the first episode, but there’s no history of their birth, their parents, or their childhood. (I doubt that they’re even sisters in the traditional biological sense.) Like I said, I think incest is about the relationship, so the fact that there isn’t much of this relationship between Celestia and Luna makes it seem less like incest than if the “sister” claim is taken on its face.
You know, I read that comic myself some time ago, so I know exactly the scene you’re talking about. I honestly don’t have a clue why that inherently makes it a turn-off.
For the record, I definitely don’t approve of long-term incestuous “relationships”, because things get entirely too complex on an emotional level. And I’ve always felt that efforts should be made that inbreeding never happens, for obvious reasons.
Personally, I find that reasoning for Celestia and Luna incest to be… odd. Flimsy logic even. But I guess if it works for you, more power to you.
I guess I struggle to understand why people are against incest porn.
To me, it’s simply a matter of having a good time with people you trust; as all sexual encounters should be. Why is that so bad?
I feel that, my stupidity aside, incest is just in the way for some people. I mean, I think about it like this: “Wow, that girl is pretty, shares the same interests as me, and we totally love each other’s company. Too bad she’s my sister.”
Sure, lack of genetic diversity, complex emotional issues yadda yadda. Whatever sort of reason or excuse. I know what it feels like to have a crush on a relative and never ever be able to tell them in fear of being completely outcast for being an inbred, incest freak. And I don’t think it should so negatively viewed. I think it’s just a word that gets in the way.
If I wanna love my cousin or sister or whatever on a deeper level because they’re everything I want in a mate regardless of being a relative or not, then I don’t think I should be shamed for it.
In re needs-more-plot and phagearchives:
I think it’s fine if you want to pursue whatever sexual relationship with a close relative, as long as it’s fine with both of you. But I’m siding with society in general in avoiding it because of the “antisexuality” of family relationships that arises from inbreeding concerns.
My rules give some explanation. (Everyone reads my rules, right? XD Maybe I should link to them everytime I mark “RULES VIOLATION" or “RULES WARNING”.)
Anyway, my first encounter with incest in furry (not exactly pornographic) was in “Better Days,” a webcomic by furry artist Jay Naylor. The chapter I linked is where it happens (or is heavily implied, anyway). That was probably my main turn-off to incest in pornography.
More generally, sexual reproduction between closely-related individuals is disadvantageous in natural selection, because it does not create as much genetic diversity. So there is a biological reason for avoiding incest, which could lead (justifiably, in my opinion) to the cultural avoidance of it.
However, I think incest has more to do with the relationship between the individuals. Adoptive siblings are not closely related biologically, but I would still consider sex between them incest. Family relationships (I think) are asexual (going back to the biological advantage), and since the relationship between adoptive children and other members of a family is about the same, I would still consider it incest (and thus wrong to some degree).
Now the Celestia-Luna exception. You might be referring to this post, in which I mention the exception; I also mention it in my rules. In the rules, I point to a clopfic, "Tipsy” by Anonymous Pegasus on FIMFiction, whose handling of the incest desensitizes it a bit to the cultural taboo.
More generally, I make the exception because, frankly, Celestia and Luna have a pretty flimsy claim for being “sisters.” All we have for that is the first episode, but there’s no history of their birth, their parents, or their childhood. (I doubt that they’re even sisters in the traditional biological sense.) Like I said, I think incest is about the relationship, so the fact that there isn’t much of this relationship between Celestia and Luna makes it seem less like incest than if the “sister” claim is taken on its face.
You know, I read that comic myself some time ago, so I know exactly the scene you’re talking about. I honestly don’t have a clue why that inherently makes it a turn-off.
For the record, I definitely don’t approve of long-term incestuous “relationships”, because things get entirely too complex on an emotional level. And I’ve always felt that efforts should be made that inbreeding never happens, for obvious reasons.
Personally, I find that reasoning for Celestia and Luna incest to be… odd. Flimsy logic even. But I guess if it works for you, more power to you.
I guess I struggle to understand why people are against incest porn.
To me, it’s simply a matter of having a good time with people you trust; as all sexual encounters should be. Why is that so bad?
I actually really loved the incest plot in better days and thought it was handled very well.
Then again, I like Jay Naylor’s work in general, so a lot of people would think my opinion is invalid.
In re needs-more-plot and sirfredrickoftrottingham on “Better Days”:
I have to admit that I wasn’t clear on why this scene in “Better Days” was a turn-off (EDIT: punctuation). To be honest, I have to admit that I don’t really know myself. That comic just made my head spin throughout, so I think it just made the “shock” of incest worse.
I guess I like Naylor’s work, but I tend to avoid it because a lot of times the creator gets pretty political (both within and without his fictional works). (Even this whole chapter in “Better Days” seemed to be just a political tract.)
(EDIT: Formatting and grammar.)
My rules give some explanation. (Everyone reads my rules, right? XD Maybe I should link to them every time I mark “RULES VIOLATION” or “RULES WARNING”.)
Anyway, my first encounter with incest in furry (EDIT: consensual incest) (not exactly pornographic) was in “Better Days,” a webcomic by furry artist Jay Naylor. The chapter I linked is where it happens (or is heavily implied, anyway). That was probably my main turn-off to incest in pornography.
More generally, sexual reproduction between closely-related individuals is disadvantageous in natural selection, because it does not create as much genetic diversity. So there is a biological reason for avoiding incest, which could lead (justifiably, in my opinion) to the cultural avoidance of it.
However, I think incest has more to do with the relationship between the individuals. Adoptive siblings are not closely related biologically, but I would still consider sex between them incest. Family relationships (I think) are asexual (going back to the biological advantage), and since the relationship between adoptive children and other members of a family is about the same, I would still consider it incest (and thus wrong to some degree).
Now the Celestia-Luna exception. You might be referring to this post, in which I mention the exception; I also mention it in my rules. In the rules, I point to a clopfic, “Tipsy” by Anonymous Pegasus on FIMFiction, whose handling of the incest desensitizes it a bit to the cultural taboo.
More generally, I make the exception because, frankly, Celestia and Luna have a pretty flimsy claim for being “sisters.” All we have for that is the first episode, but there’s no history of their birth, their parents, or their childhood. (I doubt that they’re even sisters in the traditional biological sense.) Like I said, I think incest is about the relationship, so the fact that there isn’t much of this relationship between Celestia and Luna makes it seem less like incest than if the “sister” claim is taken on its face.
Oh jeez, this turned out way longer than I expected!
On terminology: “Dickgirl” (or perhaps the rhyming “chicks with dicks”) is probably the most precise term to refer to what is being discussed here. I know that I use “androgyny” as well, but that refers to a much wider range of characteristics, some of which have nothing to do with anatomy.
This discussion is mainly inspired by an answer by needs-more-plot about why he enjoys this, reiterated when he describes “vicariously identifying…with the phallus in an image”. Essentially, he seems (based on these posts) to fantasize that the penis that is receiving pleasure is his.
Okay, I get that. But I disagree in terms of my personal preferences as a heterosexual male.
But first, some general commentary about guys being obsessed with penises.
This post highlights this obsession, and I thought it’d be fitting to respond here because it connects with the main subject.
I’ve never been obsessed with penises in the ways teenage boys are stereotypically. I guess the dominance theory is closest to what I’ve thought. The correlation between phallus length and dominance is an interesting point that I’ll bring up later.
Although I’m not obsessed in the stereotypical ways, I absolutely love dickgirls. One of my main pleasures is seeing a woman pleasured. A woman for me isn’t defined by her genitalia. In pornography, the factor on which I mostly rely is the figure (including breasts). So I get off especially to women getting off, you could say. (When I see a woman masturbating, I don’t imagine myself doing anything to her.)
The thing about penises is that I know what a penis feels like (rather obviously), so it’s easy to imagine what a woman with a penis feels. That’s it.
Well, that was it originally. The thing about penis length now comes in when I think about this drawing (clop, of a feral-form futanari Twilight Sparkle, by Boltswift). Her phallus is the same thickness as her hoof (not outlandish, but still pretty big and pushing the boundaries of reasonability). I’ll be honest right now: My main fantasy concerning this depiction is slowly running my tongue along the entire length of her phallus and listening to her moaning and panting… I wouldn’t properly fellate her, though. (Besides, I doubt I could in this case.)
Coming back from saucy to serious, I believe the length attraction isn’t due to “vicarious dominance”; it’s just because there’s more to pleasure.
Submitted to me by anon.
This is video is fascinating. It’s discussion on an observational study about common sexual kinks in humans.
Among many other things, it pretty much says exactly what I already thought: Men in general are obsessed with dicks, despite traditional thought. In fact, men are more obsessed with dicks than women are! This includes completely hetero men in general (though they’ll be hard pressed to admit it.)
((It was proven some time ago by cameras that measured where a person’s eyes pointed that men glance at another man’s crotch way, way more often than women look at either gender’s crotches. This of course being during fully clothed conversation.
It’s also proven that men think about the dicks of other men quite a lot. However, I would put forward that there is a significant different between obsessive thought and sexual attraction. Most men who identify as heterosexual cannot masturbate to gay porn even if they try. However, a large cock is vital for straight men to enjoy straight porn. Why is this? It’s fairly obvious… they aren’t obsessing over other men’s dicks in the video, they are vicariously imagining the featured cock to be their own. If that cock is pounding a pussy, great, because that’s what they want to do. If it’s pounding another guy’s ass, it doesn’t work, because that isn’t what they want to do themselves.
So, why think about other guy’s dicks in a non-sexual setting then? Simple. Dominance. Like it or not, the deeper a guy can leave his seed in a woman the more likely impregnation is. It’s a slight difference, but it is a difference. Guys with longer dicks, therefore, are slightly more likely to successfully mate. The ancient monkey part of the human male’s brain, the part most of us (men and women) are unaware of as it goes about it’s monkey life, knows this and is constantly questioning its own order in the dick size hierarchy.
It’s stupid, yes, but it by no means indicates that all guys want to suck a cock (other than their own… pretty sure most guys would if they could). There isn’t some vast conspiracy against being bi or an organized mass denial of homosexual urges. Plenty of women obsess over the breasts of other women. Doesn’t mean they’re bi or lesbian. There’s far more at work here than just sex.))
Oh yeah, you are absolutely right. You put into words what I’ve always thought.
Straight guys are obsessed with dicks. Why else do they make jokes/talk about them all the time? Guys are obsessed with drawing a phallus on every single canvas they can manage. It’s not a sexual obsession, I know. But it’s a obsession anyway.
And I think the reason why guys generally like dickgirls in porn is because of getting the female triggers of curves, but also having a phallus to vicariously live through.
Reblogging for the record. Note that I’m going TL;DW on this video for now.
Ask me shit and stuff!